Carl Radke wants you to know that he’s doing just fine.
I’m seated across from the Bravolebrity at Soft Bar, his modish non-alcoholic café in Greenpoint, Brooklyn, and sipping on a drink called the “Steel Magnolia” — a mix of matcha, lavender Earl Grey tea and salted honey cloud that is, admittedly, quite refreshing. We’re tucked away in his upstairs office, which doubles as a recording studio for Radke’s self-help podcast “More Life,” to discuss — what else? — the explosive “Summer House” Season 10 reunion.
This year’s reunion was without question the most hotly anticipated in “Summer House” history, owing to cast members Amanda Batula and Westling “West” Wilson’s budding situationship. You see, Batula is best friends with Ciara Miller, who not only used to date Wilson (and still harbored feelings for him), but spent the majority of the season coaching Batula through her marital breakdown with Kyle Cooke, one of Wilson’s pals and Radke’s best friend. To make matters worse, Wilson was hiding a girlfriend of over a year up until he and Batula went public, and the two lied and gaslit all of their friends about their romance when rumors began swirling about it on Deuxmoi.
Meanwhile, Radke, 41, has emerged as far and away the most mature man on “Summer House” (and perhaps the entire Bravosphere). He’s overcome drug and alcohol addiction, and the tragic passing of his brother, to become “the person you’re supposed to be and always wanted to be,” as his ex-fiancée Lindsay Hubbard so succinctly put it. He is now over five years sober, has mended fences with Lindsay following their very public split, and is currently dating someone new (“We’re taking it slow,” he shares).
Radke grabs a book and hands it to me. It’s called “Dry Humping: A Guide to Dating, Relating, and Hooking Up Without the Booze.” He says it’s a favorite of his.
“Honestly, if you think about it, the best sex of your life was always sober,” he tells me. “Once you build up to that comfortability with someone, you’re actually connected. Alcohol masks that deeper connection.”
During our lengthy chat, Radke opened up about his maturation journey and had plenty to say about the scandal that’s come to be known as “Scamanda” and its main perpetrator, Wilson.
“I don’t think any of us know the real West,” he says. “It’s hard to be yourself on TV.”
You don’t look like a mess.
I mean, my hair’s a mess. The way to explain the “mess” is that, yes, for a 24-hour period I was a mess. I was emotional, feeling very down, feeling confused. Kyle and I were talking a lot during that time. The statement went out, Kyle and I were on the phone and they showed that during Part 1 of the reunion. The following morning after the statement went out, I was sending Kyle voice notes and was crying on one of the voice notes, saying, “This totally destroys our friend group, I feel so bad for you and Ciara, what the fuck is going on?” An hour later, he goes outside of his apartment and walks the two dogs and runs into the paparazzi. He says “Carl’s a mess,” and it becomes this crazy meme.
Jocelyn Prescod/Bravo
One of my favorite moments this season was you and Lindsay making amends in the igloo. How did you arrive at this place of understanding?
I really feel like the housewarming that she hosted was a huge first step.
Despite the bit of shade she threw at you during her speech.
(Laughs) But that had happened at the Freedom Dinner before. There’s always some light jabbing, but I actually enjoy some of it because it shows that deep down, she cares. If she’s not saying anything to you, then there’s a problem. With the housewarming, she sent the invite to the group text, so I didn’t even know if I was supposed to go. But I asked Ciara and she said, “No, you’re going. You were invited.” I told Ciara I wanted to bring her something that was a little gesture and also bring (her daughter) Gemma something, so I sent Ciara ideas. The gesture at the housewarming, I feel like in that moment something shifted a little bit. And then her coming to the Soft Bar opening really meant a lot.
I’m looking around for the teddy bear…
It’s back downstairs in the same spot! Watching it back, I know my mom and her had an unfortunate convo, but it was really great having her here, all things considered. Going into the igloo, I had heard about the interaction with my mom at Soft Bar, but she pulled me aside and I didn’t know what we were walking into — I just knew we needed to talk. We hadn’t talked one-on-one, and once we sat in the igloo, I realized I had a really good opportunity to show her how much she meant to me and how the way I handled the situation wasn’t perfect. Lindsay has had to do some work, too. I think being a mother has made her lighter and happier, and it makes me happy to see her that way.
Do you and Lindsay almost feel like the only adults in the house at this point just wrangling all these kids? Almost like a “Cheaper by the Dozen” situation?
Maybe me as the sober dad. I drive people to the beach or to the restaurants and take pride in being a little more responsible. I will say, though: People don’t realize that behind the scenes, what drives “Summer House” is Lindsay’s energy, participation and ideas, and Kyle brings a ton to the table. The core group of us has been doing this for so long that we know what we need to do to deliver the goods. You see that mom-dad vibe, but we also care so much about “Summer House” and our group of friends and want it to keep going.
Do the OGs have a say in choosing the new cast members/houseguests?
No. We’ll hear about someone recommending people. Some of us have an opportunity to get coffee or drinks with some of these folks; some of us have already met some of these people. But there are some people that maybe we don’t know that well. And that was my experience with summer houses even before the show.
But now there’s a big age gap between the OGs and the newbies. So as a viewer, I’m like, “How do they know these people?” I’m curious how the newbies get chosen to be in the cast, and if you have a say at all because you have to live with these people.
One or two people for sure know some of these folks, although you don’t actually know someone until you live with someone.
So, are they cast by Bravo?
I don’t know… (To PR) Can I answer these questions? Sorry, I can’t talk about that!
Is it surreal to you that Erika Kirk was on “Summer House?” You’re in the scene with her.
I remember it all. I didn’t know she was “Erika Kirk.” She wasn’t with (Charlie) then. She was doing stuff in New York. I met her and her brunette friend, who was on the double date as well. (Erika) wanted me to date the friend, and I said she should take a look at my friend, Jordan. We did that whole thing, they went on a date or two…
You could have changed the course of history, Carl.
I tried to set ‘em up! The whole thing is kind of insane. I’ve been advised to not really talk about it because it doesn’t have to deal with me. But all roads lead to Bravo.
Was Kyle on his “tippies” when he was kissing Meghan King? Also, hilarious line by Lindsay.
(Laughs) That’s how Lindsay and me talk though, so that’s why I cracked up hardcore at that during the reunion. When Lindsay and I were together, we’d do baby talk like that. It’s fucking hilarious. But I’ve met Meghan King and she’s very attractive. Kyle is not that short. He looks short next to me and looks short next to Jesse, but I don’t believe he was on his tippies. His Air Force 1s have a nice insole, but he wasn’t wearing the Jax Taylor lifts. I’ve been very lucky being a “6-foot-5 motherfucker,” according to Kyle.
Watching Season 10, West and Amanda’s closeness was surprising. It’s sort of like the Scandoval season of “Vanderpump Rules” where everyone was looking for clues.
Some of those moments watching back, it’s weird because I was there. Did I notice some touching and the way West was with her? Yes, I did. And I don’t think it’s OK or cool to touch women that are married on their necks, midriffs, grabbing the back of their heads and their hair — very touchy. Watching that back was very uncomfortable and I don’t approve of that. Some of the conversations Amanda, Mia and Ciara were having were very hard to watch. They were pumping her up and guiding her through a tough situation, so it feels really icky and makes you question what was really going on all summer. With “In the City,” too, seeing that stuff has been interesting because I wasn’t there at all.
Right. On a recent episode, Amanda, Ciara and West all go out to lunch and Amanda is almost urging Ciara and West on.
It’s awkward and super strange to even think they had either already started hooking up or there were already feelings and they’re playing in Ciara’s face, which is incredibly diabolical.
What is your theory on the West and Amanda timeline?
I don’t think the timeline matters.
It’s marital infidelity though if Amanda was hooking up with West during her marriage to Kyle and while they were still trying to patch things up.
You just don’t go after a girl’s ex. And people question whether West and Ciara were at that level, and Ciara really liked West. It’s obvious. We’ve talked about it for three seasons over many dinner conversations. Ciara is very cautious and played it slow in opening her heart up to West. He brought her home. They were trying to work through what looked like a friendship last summer, but West and her were making out and there were vibes.
And having sleepovers in the fall.
Yeah. So, you don’t go for a girl’s ex, and you don’t go for a guy that’s also friends with your husband — or ex-husband. No timelines matter. You just don’t do it.
Do you think Amanda’s been getting too much heat and West hasn’t been getting enough, especially from the public at large? West is very good at “taking accountability” and deflecting blame by offering empty mea culpas.
I think the only apology is changing your behavior. That’s the only thing I care about. And only time will tell with the behavior and what they’re up to, but their behavior has spoken very loudly. They go to a Yankees game and are making out in public. Now, they’re posting that they want to be back on social again because they want to live their lives. Their behavior has been very telling, I think. I don’t wish any ill will on them and think that this has gotten out of control, but at the same time, if you play dumb games you’re going to win stupid prizes.
There’s a moment in Part 1 of the reunion where you and KJ are discussing how Amanda seems to make public displays on days that big things are going on for Ciara, like going out to that Yankees game with West the same day Ciara’s Glamour cover dropped. Have you noticed that pattern?
I think that particular day stood out. Here’s Ciara in this incredible magazine with this incredible feature — Glamour is massive and you have amazing women who’ve been on it — and I don’t know whether or not Amanda is sitting there going, “I’m going to get back at her.” I hope to God they’re not that nasty and diabolical, but it is interesting that some of these big moments for Ciara have also been coupled with random Amanda or West posts on social media. I’ve seen what you’re talking about, but I’m just hoping and praying that that’s not something that they’re purposely trying to do.
Do you want either of them back on “Summer House?”
It’s not really my call. I’m ready to show up and have a great summer, but we don’t make some of these decisions, and I think there are still some things they’re deciding on as far as what the fit will be for this summer and who will be coming back. Historically, there’s always this June timeframe where we’re still figuring out what’s going on and who will participate. I know Kyle has filmed with West and I know Amanda and Lindsay have filmed since this all went down. I don’t know how those conversations went.
You and Bailey were very cute this season. One of my favorite moments came post-Kyle fight, where she tries to calm you down and diffuse the situation by blurting out, “We can make out!”
(Laughs) I know. I wish I had just gone for it. I was so heated and upset and looking back, it would have been kind of heroic and gnarly to make out after all that. Watching the season back, it confirms how I felt. I was enjoying just having fun and not taking things too seriously, and I’ve been cautious about not hooking up or dating in the house with Lindsay being in the same house. I didn’t want to be weird or disrespectful. For a period of time, I had random hookups in the house, whether it was Danielle or Paige years ago, but I wanted to be mindful that I was sharing a house with my friends. I didn’t realize Bailey was flirting with me until later on, but she’s awesome and I have a great friendship with her. We have hung out outside of filming — we hung out a few times in the fall — but I’ve never felt more than that we have a great friendship and nice bond. I’m rooting for Bailey. She’s very funny, very opinionated, has a big personality and has been a great addition to our show.
For some reason, on “In the City,” Lindsay has revived this story about you getting a handjob from Danielle.
Which I don’t understand, and I’m just going to clear the air: That summer, in Season 4, Danielle and I were in an Uber back from Montauk and she was rubbing me over my pants, which is called an OTPHJ — over-the-pants handjob. It wasn’t a real handjob, and we all knew it wasn’t a real handjob. She was playing with me and flirting with me and we were not being great people in that moment because me and Lindsay had hooked up and were exploring dating, and then a week later, we’re in an Uber and Danielle is kind of making moves on me. We talked about it very openly, there was no shadiness or real hiding, it’s been discussed on multiple seasons and now, on Season 1 of “In the City.” From my understanding, Danielle is frustrated because with “handjob” versus “over-the-pants handjob,” it’s been spun out of control. I didn’t lie or make anything up!
I think they need you on “In the City.”
Well, you might see me! I did film with Kyle for “In the City.”
You trying to run Soft Bar is an interesting storyline, and as a “Summer House” viewer, I view you as the conscience of the show, in a way, and I feel like that’s missing on “In the City.”
I appreciate that. Listen, I would have loved to be a part of it. I was not asked, and that’s totally fine. From what I understood, they were focusing on married couples and couples having kids.
Sean Zanni/Bravo
Not really, though? I mean, Kyle and Amanda are all but broken up, you’ve got a guy who’s moved his girlfriend of six months in with him and a single bar owner.
Well, at the time they were putting it together, it was all couples. But as it’s unfolded and this whole scandal has broken out, people are like, well, it doesn’t make sense now because they’re not all couples. Clearly someone up above had a clear idea for what they wanted for “In the City,” and I’m happy for them. I’m so pumped for Kyle and so pumped for Lindsay. When I was dating Lindsay and we were together, she was always coming up with ideas and pitching them. “In the City” is one of three ideas that I know she’s been thinking about, so it’s really cool that she’s been able to extend this. Lindsay is a force to be reckoned with. She’s one of the greatest reality TV stars of all time. And if there’s a Season 2, I’d love to be a part of it.
To go back to the reunion, did it strike everyone as odd how checked out Amanda and West were? I mean they looked out of it. Andy Cohen goes up to them in the green room before the reunion and it’s like they’re not even aware of what’s happening.
I sat next to West and her. You could feel the energy of it and I didn’t feel it. What I mean by that is, when someone actually shows remorse or cares that they did something wrong, they express that in a way that you feel. They were almost numb. And watching it back is different because I’m seeing their facial expressions, which I did not see when I was sitting on the couch. And it was weird. Part 1 of the reunion was very uncomfortable to watch because you can tell the rest of us are feeling certain things — Kyle is up and down, Ciara is obviously feeling it, KJ and Jesse broke down — but the people that aren’t were sitting next to me.
I reflect a lot on two years prior to that when I was in the hot seat. I’d called off a wedding to Lindsay on camera, we’d had crazy back-and-forths and I was definitely the bad guy. I went into that knowing what I needed to do to take accountability and own up to what I’d done, but my approach and their approach seemed very different. I don’t know what their pre-reunion preparation was, but they didn’t watch the show — clearly. From what I understand, the whole cast had watched except for those two.
The appearance of Meija, West’s ex-girlfriend, was a big revelation.
West had a full-blown girlfriend all of last summer. He was presenting as a single guy, flirting and having a lot of fun over the summer with Ciara and other girls, and then on those weekends while he was having fun in the Hamptons, Meija was in his New York City apartment hanging out. That alone is insane and deserves a lot of conversation.
I don’t think West got enough heat for making out with a girl in front of Ciara. And look, I know him and Ciara made up shortly after that, but it was real dickhead behavior. Super disrespectful. He’s exhibited a reckless disregard for her feelings, in particular.
Yeah. It’s pretty clear that in that scene he doesn’t see Ciara — in more ways than one. He’s struggled to see her, respect her and understand what she’s shared with him a few different times. She really liked him and pursued that as a real relationship, and West discarded her, and then, because we film a show together, he was like, well, if I’m not friends with her then what do I do here? It’s a lot of manipulation and performance from West.
Kyle floats a theory during the reunion about premeditation on West’s part with Amanda — that he knew she was going to have this glow-up and so, because he’s a total clout-chaser as Lindsay put it, he latched onto her.
Yes. I think West knows how to play into certain things in the Bravosphere that would lend itself to more fan support. He knew that supporting Amanda, the girl who’s going through this difficult relationship dynamic, would make him look like the white knight in shining armor. I think there is an element of West producing himself to that degree. People need to pull up The New York Times article where he gives away who West is. He is playing a character on “Summer House.” We play our real lives. And Paige called him out two years ago on the reunion perfectly.
And we catch him on a hot mic coaching Amanda in the reunion green room about how she can gain more sympathy from viewers.
Yeah. “If you need to cry onstage, then cry.” It’s performative and, more than anything, that doesn’t work for our show.
I’ve never been on the West train. He’s just always seemed so completely full of it to me. He has this delivery where his voice breaks at the end of every confessional statement that’s always struck me as a craven plea for sympathy. I can never tell if he’s being genuine.
Well, I don’t think he knows either. West kind of came out of nowhere in the Bravo world, and at the time that he came into Bravo, there was a lot going on with “Summer House.” Lindsay and I broke up and that was a big news story that percolated for months until the season started airing. He was catapulted into fame, influencer contracts, deals and sideline reporting, and I think some of that is like a drug. I experienced that fame where all the girls want to sleep with you and they’re in your DMs and famous people are inviting you out to games and concerts and sporting events. He’s been on TV for three months. That didn’t happen for a lot of us where it was a slow build. I think he got high on his own supply, in more ways than one, and you add in the Ciara of it all: Him dating her, or being with her, also elevates him because she’s drop-dead gorgeous and everyone roots for Ciara and wants her happy. So that relationship evolution people were rooting for and excited for, but he was treating it as a performance — and she wasn’t.
Right.
The drinking and the partying and the performance? Back in early seasons, you might have seen some of the performative Carl. Alcohol was a big factor and Adderall and cocaine were big factors. I was the version of myself that I thought you guys wanted to see, but over time I realized that wasn’t me — I was an asshole and a psychopath. Some of the behavior I’m seeing from him makes me think he’s afraid to be himself because it’s scary.
OK, so how’s Soft Bar going?
It’s good. We are entering our 11th month of business. We have a great team and I feel really lucky. I wanted to make sure that this business would succeed, so I found a place in Greenpoint, Brooklyn, with a lower rent. And we didn’t sign a lease until a year and a half into building the brand with pop-ups and a mobile event with my van to get the word out there. I built it a little slowly and methodically, and I think we’re seeing the fruits of that. We do tons of events and community gatherings and have DJs. We have been profitable the last few months, which has been amazing. I believe we’re paving the way for the non-alcoholic industry and showcasing what this lifestyle can look like with elevated drinks, a cool space and ambiance, and the drinks also make you feel good with healthy ingredients. We actually don’t do mocktails here; we do soft cocktails. We’re not making fun of anything here, which is why we don’t do mocktails.
How is your sobriety journey going? It’s not easy in a city like New York.
This is how you flip the thinking: The only way to stay alive is to be sober. I was so bad that my last day of drinking and using cocaine I almost died — from wanting not to live and the volume of cocaine and alcohol I was putting into my body. I almost overdosed. My brother had passed away six months prior, and I was in a deep depression and sadness. I was down on my knees and needed real help. So, I had someone call a sponsor for me. My decision to not drink is to stay alive. It’s easy. I want to live my life and be of service to other people. The more you share your story out loud, the more you connect with people. I take pride in being on a show where you can see someone who doesn’t drink but also has fun, is social, going on dates and being goofy and weird. The version of Carl you’re seeing on “Summer House” now is the real me. The first five seasons wasn’t really me.
There’s fentanyl in some cocaine now, too. That wasn’t something people had to deal with before.
I have friends that still party and I try not to be judgmental. My one thing is: Make sure that you test it. Do I carry Narcan in my backpack? I do. Have I had to help someone with Narcan before? I have. That’s not a great place to be, but the less I judge other people and just keep my side of the street clean, it’s better for me that way. I don’t want to be high and mighty. I don’t have it all figured out, but if they want help, I’ll be here. I’ll always take your call.
