SPOILER ALERT: This story contains spoilers from “Are You Happy Now, That I’m on My Knees?,” the series finale of “Tell Me Lies,” now streaming on Hulu.
It’s the end of a very toxic era.
After three seasons, “Tell Me Lies” came to a very dramatic end, and included the perfect needle drop: Britney Spears’ “Toxic.” To sum up the series finale’s key moments, in the college timeline, Bree (Cat Missal), in a rage of anger after finding out that Lucy (Grace Van Patten) was the person Evan (Branden Cook) had cheated with, releases the tape of Lucy admitting to lying about being raped. As a result of that lie, Lucy gets expelled from college and assumes Stephen (Jackson White) was the one who leaked it. Later, Marianne (Gabriella Pession) flips on Bree, calling Oliver (Tom Ellis), Bree’s mom and Amanda (the underage girl Oliver is sleeping with) in for a meeting to tell Bree that if she doesn’t stop harassing them, Bree will lose her scholarship. Her mother believes them, despite the fact that Oliver and Marianne are gaslighting Bree and lying about what happened.
In the future timeline, it’s revealed that Bree and Wrigley began having an affair at Bree and Evan’s engagement party. When it comes time for the wedding, Stephen figures out that it was Bree who released the tape of Lucy and decides, in typical Stephen form, to ruin the wedding by revealing all. He grabs the mic and shares a few bombshells: Bree released the tape; he and Lucy slept together that morning; Evan and Lucy had sex in college (even though Bree already knew, but Lucy didn’t know she knew); and that Wrigley and Bree have been sleeping together. Afterward, Bree tells Lucy they can get through this, but Stephen asks Lucy to leave with him instead.
In true Lucy form, she does leave with Stephen — only for him to leave her stranded at a random gas station in the middle of nowhere. Luckily, she’s able to laugh, as a cover of “Such Great Heights” by The Postal Service plays — the song that first played during a Season 1 party during which Lucy and Stephen wore garbage bags.
Ahead of the finale, “Tell Me Lies” creator Meaghan Oppenheimer shared that this episode will be the series finale. Below, Oppenheimer and Van Patten break down their collaboration, share why it was the right time to end the show — and answer all the burning questions not answered in the finale.
I want to go back and start with the collaboration between you guys, and what you really remember about this connection from the start.
Grace Van Patten: I remember our first meeting ever on Zoom. And I loved the meeting so much, it made me even more passionate. I had only read the pilot. Once I met with Meaghan, I was like, “Oh, this person wants to tell a real, human story about these young people going through such a relatable thing, and that is just something I’ve always wanted to be a part of.” I thought it was such a new, fresh angle to see it through these young people’s eyes. And I just loved how passionate Meaghan was about it. So it was instantly a deep conversation about what these characters were going through, which was such a relief that it wasn’t just another young adult cliché show. It was really dealing with layered emotions.
Meaghan Oppenheimer: Grace, you were so young! I remember talking to you about the instability of that time in life and those initial relationships. I remember being so struck by Grace’s stability and maturity, because she has such depth. I know that you don’t feel this way always on the inside, but you present as a very steady presence to people, in a really great way. Whenever you’re working with Grace, you feel safe. You feel like the material is in safe hands. You feel like she gets it. There’s just a real reliability about her that is so rare and such a blessing in your No. 1.
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Meaghan, how early on did you know about this ending, and when did you tell Grace?
Oppenheimer: We took it one season at a time. I put in my very initial pitch pages that the two timelines were going to culminate together, and one timeline needed to end with Lucy and Stephen’s worst and biggest breakup. That would explain the mental state that she’s in later in her adulthood, where you kind of get the sense that this is a recovering addict. I knew that public downfall we would see unfold, while we also saw the wedding unfold. And I think I talked to Grace about that, that there was going to be some sort of public humiliation. We didn’t know exactly what that would be. But then at the beginning of every season, I talked through the arc with everyone. I think at the end of last season, I said, “I think you probably get expelled.”
Van Patten: Yeah, at the end of Season 1, you were like, something very, very bad has to happen to Lucy.
As opposed to all the great things that have happened to her!
Van Patten: Right? Something even worse! I was like, what could be worse than what she’s been through? But you figured it out! It was so great that before every season, Meaghan walked me through the arc. Especially with this show, it’s nice to know what we’re going into, because we know it’s gonna be fucking crazy, so to be prepared for what we’re about to go down is nice. It’s nice to have that mental preparation.
Meaghan, you announced the show will not be returning. When and why did you make that decision?
Oppenheimer: I felt like the story had reached its natural conclusion, and I really didn’t want it to become something else. This story, to me, was always a closed-ended story. It has a beginning, middle and end. This was always a question of what happens to this friend group when there’s a poisonous dynamic at the center? And what happens when they reunite years later? So I felt like this should be the ending. The fans are so loud and loyal, and that’s kind of all you can hope for. We definitely talked about whether there are any other organic ways to move forward. We just kept coming back to the same thing: It felt like anything else would feel like an epilogue.
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Grace, Lucy made one last horrible choice at the end — getting in Stephen’s car, only for him to desert her at a gas station. But at least he left her purse! How do you feel about Lucy’s ending?
Van Patten: I really do have hope that it was the last wrong choice. I think she needed that final confirmation of who this guy is. I think it had been enough time where you forget! How long had it been? Six years since they saw each other? But it wasn’t a real end to the cycle. It wasn’t her doing, so she’s clearly been thinking about him. He’s still consuming her mind, and at a very vulnerable spot at the wedding, once he blows everything up, I think that’s when she’s most susceptible to running back to him. She’s always subconsciously looking for a sliver of an opening to go back to him, and she did, and she got that confirmation she needed. That’s why I love that she laughs at the end, because you think she might cry, and then it’s like, “Oh, my God. I see it perfectly now.” There’s freedom in that, relief in that. I like to hope that it’s exactly what Lucy needed to start a new chapter of her life.
Oppenheimer: Totally. Because also, even though she was away from him, it was still within the confines of this group and all the secrets that were still being kept within this group. She was still so full of shame toward Bree over Evan, not knowing that Bree knew, not knowing what Bree had done to her. She had never chosen Stephen over her friends. So now in her mind, she’s like, well, maybe it would be different if I chose him over my friends — and obviously it’s not. We’ve learned that Stephen will only let someone go if he makes the decision, and so if she had turned him down, she wouldn’t be free of him. He’d come back around in a couple of years. He has to be the one to cut that cord and to feel like he has the last laugh for her to actually be free.
It felt like the perfect ending to me, because it felt inevitable. One of the themes of this season, for me, was inevitability and the consequences of these actions during this time of your life where you think nothing is that permanent and nothing is that serious, and then actually finding out that it is. The consequences can really matter. I really wanted to show serious stakes of what happened for Lucy and making these decisions around Stephen, because I think it is a little bit of a cautionary tale.
Grace, how did you react to learning Bree was the one who released the tape?
Van Patten: I was really surprised, especially because that friendship is so tight and so beautiful at the beginning of the season. It’s really emphasizing their closeness. In Season 2, they were totally each other’s confidants, and have been through a lot together and have found safety in one another. So to hear that, it was like, what the hell happened? But also, it makes sense.
I love how Bree did it so impulsively. Then you instantly see her feel so bad, and you can feel the regret. Lucy finding out at the wedding is a complete betrayal. But also, I can see them working things out. I can see Lucy thinking, “All right, we’re even now.” I’m hoping that after the finale, it pushes Lucy to really do some work on herself and focus on the relationships that actually mattered in her life. Bree was one of them, and I think that she could work it out with her, and I hope she does.
Meaghan, people online have been very vocal about the many burning questions they had going into the finale — and not everything was answered, so I’m going to do some rapid-fire questions here about what wasn’t answered. Maybe you have a backstory for them, maybe not. Let’s start with: Did Oliver and Marianne just get away with it?
Oppenheimer: So I have thought about this. I think they got away with it. But he’s gonna get #MeToo’d. We haven’t gotten to that (time period) yet.
Van Patten: Will Bree be the one to do it?
Oppenheimer: No, I think Bree’s got enough of her own shit.
Van Patten: She’s, like, on a farm somewhere with Wrigley!
Oppenheimer: Yeah, she doesn’t need to take that on. But yeah, he gets #MeToo’d. I don’t think he and Marianne are still together in 2015. That’s a very toxic relationship.
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Did Bree ever find out about Evan’s lie about her mom? She wasn’t at the wedding, right? He really became a villain this season!
Oppenheimer: No. That’s what she believes is a betrayal from her mom, and she doesn’t forgive her for that. She just kind of digs in with Evan after that.
It felt like, if you’re hanging out with someone like Stephen, it’s going to influence people. I think there’s this idea of how guys sort of defend their guy friends about things that they would never defend other people in. I wanted to play with that, and Wrigley going the other way. Wrigley becoming the guy that is, like, “No, fuck it. I’m gonna stand up for these girls.” Evan, turning, it was definitely a decision that happened later.
What happened to Lucy after she was expelled, and how did she re-meet Max?
Oppenheimer: I think Lucy had a few months where she was in therapy, getting better. I think she went to some not-as-great school, probably the following year, graduated a year after her friends. As we know, she went into sales instead of writing. I think she probably met Max in New York. They connected, and he probably heard what happened to her, and he’s a good guy and had empathy for her. I think she probably reached out to be like, “Hey, I’m sorry that I was insane,” but it was a safe relationship that required a bit of delusion on both of their parts.
Van Patten: She doesn’t deserve him. He’s so good. I just want the best for Max. He’s so innocent, he’s so sweet. But I get it, the sweet guys always end up with the crazy girls. That’s what happens, so it makes sense. It’s not unrealistic to me. But they probably shouldn’t have been together. Lucy probably shouldn’t date for a while.
How did Stephen and Lydia get together?
Oppenheimer: I’ve had people ask that a lot! That moment at the end of Season 2, when she’s talking about what a dick Lucy is, and he’s like, “Oh, maybe I’ll see you around sometime,” that’s the clue. He’s gonna seek this girl out, out of a shared enemy, basically. I think that after she gets expelled, he still doesn’t feel like he beat her. Stephen believes that Lucy might have had something to do with him not getting into Yale. I think he just assumes that that was her doing, and also, she fucking chose Bree! He sees them hugging, and he’s still mad. He doesn’t feel like he’s won. So he reaches out to Lydia and tells her everything she wants to hear about what an evil dick Lucy is. They get together based on a shared hatred. I actually read some study that said the most successful relationships are ones that have a common enemy, which I don’t know if I agree with! But yeah, what’s not to like with Lydia? She’s hot, she’s rich, she offers him a lot of things that he likes — but I think he’s definitely using her.
Did Chris also get #MeToo’d?
Oppenheimer: I feel like he probably didn’t.
Van Patten: I feel like he got away with it.
Oppenheimer: So many people after #MeToo were like, “Did we cancel all the men? Was it too much?” And I know so many men that are living their best lives right now. They’re probably wondering when it’s gonna happen, but they’re fine. And they shouldn’t be. So I think a lot of people get away with things.
What happened to Alex, and why wasn’t everyone’s favorite drug dealer at the wedding?
Oppenheimer: Bree, probably, in her relationship with Evan, needed to distance herself from different aspects of the darker parts of her past, and I think that he served a purpose for her when they came back together in college. He’s someone who is a loner and goes his own way, and if she’s not the one reaching out to him to keep that connection, he’s going to respect that space. I think they probably just fell out of touch kind of organically, but have no hard feelings with each other. Also, it would have been really awkward for him to be invited, with Lucy as her bridesmaid. Even though fucking Stephen was invited, but that’s because of Evan. I wonder if Lucy and Alex find each other in their 30s, maybe.
Van Patten: I know, maybe!
Oppenheimer: I like them together a lot.
Van Patten: I feel like they could figure it out. They’re both damaged in a similar way.
Oppenheimer: They’re both very non-judgmental people, which is something I really appreciate about Lucy.
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When did you decide you wanted Bree and Wrigley to be together?
Oppenheimer: It was always a possibility. I always do about six weeks of prep before I start the writers room, when I kind of figure out what I want the season to be. And it was during that time, I always send a long email to everyone about what I think the season is going to be. And at the end of it, I was like, “Bree and Wrigley are endgame.” Everyone was like, what? But then as soon as we got into it, it worked.
One of the reasons I gave him such a hero moment this season, not just with the Bree stuff, but with all the other stuff that happens is (because) Spencer gave an interview, like, a year and a half ago. He was like, “I feel like we know that he’s not going to win in the future, because we see where he’s at. And I wish he could have a win, but I respect whatever happens.” And I was like, “I’m gonna give you a win.”
Stephen is still the worst of the group, right?
Oppenheimer: For sure. He’s the poison that creates all the other mayhem. I think a lot of these people would not be as bad if it wasn’t for his influence. But I think it’s funny, I get a little bit upset about how so many people are like, “Oh, Lucy’s as bad as Stephen.” What show are you watching? Stephen has done things that are so much worse than everyone else. I think he also has a lot of qualities that are incredibly charming, and you can’t help but watch, but I think he’s the worst!
Grace, how do you feel when you hear people say Lucy’s as bad as Stephen?
Van Patten: She’s not innocent in the situation, 1,000%. It takes two to tango. This relationship is not toxic just because of Stephen. But the main difference to me with Lucy and Stephen is that Stephen’s toxicity is ingrained in him. It’s compulsive. I don’t think he has any control over it. Lucy is trying to play the game or something. I do truly believe that Lucy has good intentions; she just is incapable of manifesting them in the right way. You see her fail at that over and over, and but she’s also so young. I have complete faith that Lucy will figure herself out in a way. Stephen is who he is, and he will never change.
Oppenheimer: She’s very reactive. Her toxic moments are pretty much always in reaction to something, trying to make something, trying to stop something, trying to undo something. She is depressed when we meet her. I think that coldness that they talk about, that’s how her depression has manifested. Some people, when they’re depressed, are just more reactive. They’re not coming from a stable place. They’re kind of batting away whatever is coming at them.
Van Patten: And you see her with guys besides Stephen — she doesn’t treat them great either. Her dad died. She has no fatherly figure. She has no healthy love from a man, and she probably has no idea what she needs or deserves or even wants. I think she’s going by trial and error, and wants different things from these different people that come through her life — but is completely controlled by how Stephen has made her feel, and just continues to project that feeling onto every relationship she’s had since him, which is so tragic to watch.
This interview has been edited and condensed.
