The buzz surrounding “Traitor” Season 4 has never been louder. After Peacock announced the season’s raucous and newsworthy casting choices in June, with Donna Kelce revealed as the first-ever Secret Traitor, executive producers Rosie Franks and Sam Rhys-Jones were excited to try something new this time around.
“You never know what a person is going to be like when they arrive at that castle. Sometimes you expect people to behave a certain way,” Rhys-Jones told Variety when asked about the casting of controversial provocateur Michael Rapaport. “When it comes to casting, the main question we always ask is how much do they want to play the game? That’s the No. 1 question. Michael was so excited to play the game. He threw himself into the game energetically and was so passionate about it. But it was very exciting to watch.”
As for Kelsey, the producers didn’t expect the cast to be afraid of the Swifties, but they were wrong. “Never underestimate the Swifties,” Franks says now. (As for questions raised by astute observers about whether Kelce actually didn’t take part in the mission in Episode 2, the producers answered by dodging the question.)
Below, the two break down the big moments of this season so far and explain the cast’s daily smoked salmon cravings. Franks and Reese-Jones also delve into the casting of Rapaport and Colton Underwood, who have been lightning rods this season (for very different reasons), forcing director Peacock to ask viewers to stop their toxic cyberbullying.
Let’s go back to when we decided to cast Donna Kelce and make her the secret traitor. What was that process?
Rosie Franks: People say this all the time. “Wouldn’t it be really exciting if we, as an audience, didn’t know who the traitors were?” And we always said, “Well, we love the fact that the audience is involved. You get to play the game through the eyes of the traitors, and you see the loyal ones trying to find them.” We think that’s really the most compelling way to do it. However, we thought that viewers might enjoy this prediction game for just a short period of time during the season. And I really liked the idea that with the roundtable, you as a viewer at home were also trying to guess. You were trying to get it right too. So we felt that Secret Traitor’s twist would do just that and scratch people’s itch.
Sam Rees-Jones: We also wanted to test the traitors. Players sometimes enter the castle and think that the traitor knows how to play the game as well. So it’s always exciting to pull the rug out from under your feet and put something else in front of it to see how you can move over it.
This season, we’re chatting more online than ever before. There was some conversation about Donna Kelce and the fact that she didn’t appear in the second challenge. People were wondering if she was actually there. What do you say about that?
Rhys-Jones: Donna showed up, and she was great. I love watching Donna. It was like watching an American mother in a castle. And that’s what I love about this show. What I love about “Traitor” is the fact that Donna chats with comedians and people you wouldn’t expect to be associated with. We loved seeing Donna there with her sunglasses on, sitting around and going on missions. It was so fun to watch her.
Franks: We were really excited because she said she was a fan of the show and wanted to play the game. She really wanted to play. She came with so many strategies. And the idea of Taylor Swift’s future mother-in-law secretly prowling around the castle in a red cape couldn’t be more campy. So it felt like it was leaning right into the tone of “The Traitors.”
Rees-Jones: I didn’t think the players would be scared of the Swifties, but maybe we underestimated them.
Franks: Never underestimate the Swifties.
Ewan Cherry/Peacock
If the traitors bring in another one, will they take care of it?
Rhys-Jones: So there’s a traitor rule that you get when a traitor first enters the castle, and that dictates everything for them. And there’s a rule that if they get down to two, there’s potentially a hiring option.
There seems to be another rule about not abandoning other traitors if you are exiled. Others felt that speculation about Lisa Rinna shouldn’t have been called out when Yum Yum was murdered.
Franks: That development was really exciting for us. We always aim to be able to continue to surprise our viewers and players. One of the things we liked about this development is that we’ve never done anything before where the believers witness the murder. We thought it would be very exciting and it would be really disturbing if someone literally just got taken away in front of everyone and that was it. Obviously, similar to how the plot twist unfolded, they had a chance to discuss everything that happened, and the traitors were told that they needed to be very careful in covering up this murder. So everyone knew it was a high stakes and that believers were being given the opportunity to have their say.
Rhys-Jones: What I’m saying about Black Banquet is that when Traitor is at its best, it’s when it’s fully immersive, and that’s always our goal: a fully immersive experience. “The Black Banquet” is one of the most immersive things I’ve ever shot. There was no producer there. When they entered this room, it felt like a medieval banquet, and the story could have been completely different. Lisa could have killed Tara, dragged Tara away, and started screaming that it was Dorinda’s fault for the turkey. The story would have been completely different then.
Franks: When the plot twist feels a little scary, that’s when you know it’s going to work. Because if it scares us, it means we have to take a step back and let it happen.
Now, can we talk about this seasonal food? Is there a shortage of smoked salmon in the castle, or is it really delicious?
Franks: Smoked salmon is the star.
Rhys Jones: We’ve never had smoked salmon, so we can’t testify to how delicious it is. But listen, we’re in the Scottish Highlands, and there’s no better smoked salmon than in the Scottish Highlands.
Franks: I think it’s brain food. They should stock it up because the game is a mental game. Therefore, it is beneficial to consume as much omega-3 as possible at breakfast.
Rhys-Jones: I love how the audience took it. I love that viewers pay close attention to every element of the show. Our crew’s breakfast spread is not very good.
Kristen Kish was criticized for popularizing butter and talked a little about the snack. Who decides what food can be eaten?
Rhys Jones: We can talk about the kitchen. I love the kitchen. Where in your house do you like to chat, have a chat, or drink tea?The kitchen is a unified space. When you get back from your mission of running around and driving tanks up hills, I’m going to go to the kitchen to get a snack. We want our cast members to be well-fed, comfortable and happy. Too bad the butter wasn’t as warm as Kristen wanted. I’ll take that memo back to the plane.
Franks: It’s a living, breathing space. So sometimes I feel like sticking my hand in the marshmallow jar.
Kristen also talked a little about editing, since viewers haven’t seen her play the game much. How do you decide what to show?
Franks: That’s important to the game. And you have to have a macro perspective about it. But when you’re in it, you know it’s really intense. So not only do you shoot 12 hours a day, but you also have 22 people in it with 22 completely different relationships. It is impossible to convey every individual’s experience through their eyes. We need to take a step back and give a fair portrayal of the game’s story. We really believe that, and we approach it with a great deal of integrity.
Rees-Jones: I agree. I’m really proud of how authentic and true to the story our storytelling is, more than any other show I’ve ever worked on. We have hours of footage and a great team vetting the story, but basically everything needs to be fed back into the game.
Can we talk about the casting of Michael Rapaport? He got a lot of screen time, did you expect that when you cast him?
Rhys-Jones: You never know what will happen to you when you arrive at that castle. Sometimes you expect people to behave a certain way. When we got on Zoom with Michael, originally before he joined the show, you could tell how much he loved the show, number one, how much he loved the game, number two, and how excited he was to go to Scotland, and he threw himself into it. The main question we always ask when it comes to casting is how long do they want to play the game? That’s the number one question. Michael was very excited to play the game. I was working hard and immersing myself in the game, and it was very exciting to watch.
Ewan Cherry/Peacock
What about Colton Underwood? Did you all expect the backlash that would follow him?
Rees-Jones: I would give the same answer. Colton is exactly the same. We spoke with him on Zoom and you could tell how excited he was to play this game. And that’s all you want. I’m talking more broadly about the entire cast. Never before have we had a cast so immersed in the game. They just play the game hard and that’s what makes for such a great show. We are not involved as producers in any way, so we don’t tell anyone to do anything in the game. We give them a set of rules and basically hand them the castle. So it’s up to them how they navigate the game here. But this year’s cast has pushed themselves and thrown themselves into the game, creating an immersive murder mystery set in this Scottish camp, a theatrical murder mystery that’s a lot of fun to watch.
Some questions and assignments seem to be more difficult in the UK version than in the US version. Is it true?
Franks: That’s not something I thought of.
Many wonderful people returned home early on in “Traitor.” Why not try an All-Star season?
Rhys-Jones: So there’s only season four! We’re still babies, but you never know. We have no control over who leaves the show and in what course. Is there anyone who has left the show in the past four seasons that you wish you had seen a little more of? Absolutely.
Cyberbullying has been a big topic this season, and Peacock was forced to issue a statement. What types of resources do you provide to help cast members feel protected and safe both at home and after the game?
Franks: Protecting our cast is of the utmost importance to us. We take the welfare of the cast on the show really seriously. It’s always at the forefront of our minds before, during and after filming and we follow very robust welfare protocols.
Rhys-Jones: I’m really proud of this show. What we are most proud of about our show is the benefit support we provide to our cast. This is the best show I’ve ever been on.
This interview has been edited and condensed.
