SPOILER ALERT: This story contains spoilers from the series finale of “Stranger Things,” now streaming on Netflix.
And so ends the nine-and-a-half-year journey of “Stranger Things,” which launched in July 2016 and concluded on Dec. 31, 2025. Creators Matt and Ross Duffer wrapped up the series in a finale that ran just over two hours, and not only premiered on Netflix, but played in select theaters as well. In a media landscape that’s splintered into a million pieces, the conclusion of “Stranger Things” — with its finale dropping precisely at 8 p.m. ET/5 p.m. PT on New Year’s Eve — felt like a throwback to an earlier time, and a last gasp of monoculture.
“The Rightside Up” wrapped up the stories of all the major characters, after Eleven (Millie Bobby Brown), Will (Noah Schnapp), Nancy (Natalia Dyer), Joyce (Winona Ryder) and the rest of the Hawkins heroes went into the Abyss to defeat the Mind Flayer and kill Vecna (Jamie Campbell Bower) for once and for all. In Variety’s Oct. 15 cover story about “Stranger Things,” Matt Duffer said explicitly, “This is a complete story. It’s done.”
Which doesn’t mean that every single plot thread was tied up in a neat bow, as TikTok will undoubtedly be telling us for the next few months (and possibly forever). The biggest lingering question that “The Rightside Up” leaves ambiguous is whether Eleven is dead (did she sacrifice herself when the Upside Down was destroyed to thwart the military from weaponizing future clones of her?) or alive (was that last image just a projection of her, as aided by Linnea Berthelsen’s Kali, and Eleven managed to escape?). Viewers will surely reach their own conclusions, but in the spirit of “Stranger Things” and its inspirations, Eleven may very well be alive.
Courtesy of Netflix
Mike (Finn Wolfhard) certainly seems to think so. The show’s final scene — after an 18-month time jump to the class of ‘89’s graduation — is set in the Wheelers’ basement as the gang plays Dungeons & Dragons one last time, in a throwback to the series premiere. It’s then that Mike tells Will, Lucas (Caleb McLaughlin), Max (Sadie Sink) and Dustin (Gaten Matarazzo) how he sees their stories moving forward, as they each embark on their futures — and it’s where he tells them that he thinks Eleven might be alive after all. As his sister Holly (Nell Fisher), her friend Derek (Jake Connelly) and their other friends come barreling down the stairs, ready to take over the D&D game, Mike closes the door. (For Variety’s full recap of the “Stranger Things” finale, read this.)
In an interview with the Duffer brothers on the morning of Jan. 1, they delve into the uncertainty of Eleven’s fate; staging the final battle with the Mind Flayer and Vecna, and debating who got to deal the death blow; the element unveiled in the finale that will be key to the spinoff — and being unpleasantly surprised by the review bombing of “The Bridge,” the series’ penulimate episode. The New Year’s Day conversation is interrupted only by Brown repeatedly trying to call Matt Duffer, which disrupts the Zoom.
See, everybody? She’s alive!
You’ve been clear that you’ve known for a long time that the final scene was that D&D campaign with the kids, who are now young adults. But how much of that scene did you know far in advance? Like, did you know Eleven wouldn’t be there, that Max would be there — break it down for me, please!
Matt Duffer: Initially, when we came up with it a very long time ago, it was the kids — the “kids,” in quotes — play one final game of D&D, put their books away and go upstairs. And Mike was going to shut the door, closing the door effectively on childhood. So that was the idea. Once we introduced Holly, and this is one of the reasons we were so interested in bringing Holly and her friends and Derek into the show, was to be able to have a passing of the torch moment. To be able to recapture Season 1, it allows Mike to reflect on his childhood and feel happy that his sister and her friends are going to have a magical experience, or adventures like they had — hopefully not as traumatic. But as Dustin said, there was so much good amongst so much bad. It changed them in so many meaningful ways.
Ross Duffer: Eleven was never going to be there. It was very early on in the writing process of this season that we figured out exactly how to tell that story and landed on the “I believe” moment. And once we landed on “I believe,” then that sort of cracked it wide open. That was in those first few weeks of the writers’ room, because we started at the end, at that basement scene, and wanted to make sure that we got it to a place where we felt was the right ending for the show. And then we built the season to that moment.
Matt Duffer: I also love the idea that the original ending of “ET” was them going to be them playing D&D again. So I like the idea of doing that.
Courtesy of Netflix
Speaking of the Eleven ending, and the ambiguity of whether she’s alive, can you talk about when you had that idea and why you wanted to do that?
Ross Duffer: A couple things: Eleven represents, in a lot of ways, the magic of childhood. And we knew for our kids to be able to grow up, the magic had leave Hawkins. There was never a version that we had written where it was Eleven down in that basement. It was never going to be that simple and that easy. It was finding a way to come up with an ending where it was not that simple, but also bittersweet, and that there was hope there.
Matt Duffer: Speaking of Eleven, Millie keeps Facetiming, disrupting the Zoom.
Right now?
Matt Duffer: Yeah. And Millie, if you don’t answer, just keeps hitting you up.
It’s two fronts. Ross is talking about it thematically, in terms of the magic of childhood. And then there’s this story element of it in Eleven’s choice, ultimately. It was a huge debate — she’s calling again, I’m so sorry, Kate. I’m curious, actually, what she’s saying. Everybody’s very emotional.
She’s like, “I’m alive, guys!”
Matt Duffer: “I’m alive, guys,” yeah — no, she’s very emotional. Everybody’s very emotional. And no one’s here in L.A., so we haven’t gotten to see anyone after it played. I’m so sorry.
I know what I was gonna say: From a character point of view, not a thematic point of view, we had so many debates in the writers’ room about what we were going to do with Eleven. And then we tried to actually express everything we were talking about in the room on the screen. So Hopper’s speech to Eleven is vocalizing what a lot of people in the room were saying. And then what Kali was saying to her was vocalizing the other side of the argument.
The question was, which of those choices is Eleven going to choose? And if you, like Mike and the others, choose to believe that she is alive somewhere, then she picked something in the middle. But either way, it’s a completely selfless act and heroic act on Eleven’s part. I mean, you’ve seen all those pregnant women, and how many children are going to be born, potentially, using her blood, how the cycle will exist, and how many other kids will go through what she went through. And she’s making damn sure that that never happens again.
Courtesy of Netflix
One discussion online this morning is whether Mike made the whole thing up, or Eleven actually told him what her plan was. Or, that during the graduation, Mike realized that Eleven never could have gotten from the truck to the gate because of the kryptonite, so that’s not really her and was a projection. Discuss!
Matt Duffer: The only thing I’ll debunk is that Eleven does not communicate with Mike in any way. But what you just said at the end — yes, at graduation, he’s hearing the speakers distort because the principal is so angry, and it makes him realize that there was the kryptonite. So how could she have possibly made it all the way to the gate? Not only that. How could she have possibly used her powers to bring him into the void?
But there are a lot of other questions. Could Kali have actually done that? Could she have possibly been alive? We like that it’s up to the audience. Obviously, we tell you what the characters choose.
And when you decided to bring Kali back, was it in your imagination that she could possibly help Eleven with a potential fake-out at the end? And is she alive long enough to do that?
Matt Duffer: Well, that’s the question. We wanted to bring her back for a lot of reasons. We wanted that story to have existed for a reason, and we’ve been looking for a way to bring Kali back and a reason to bring her back. And we found it this year.
But it wasn’t just for her ability to project or create these illusions. The other part of it was Hopper and Mike are so close to Eleven. Mike is such — I don’t want to call him naive, but a little bit. And he’s such a dreamer and an optimist. I know a lot of people were frustrated with what Kali was saying to Eleven, and I get that. But what she was saying was accurate in so many ways, and we needed someone to be able to voice that — the dark reality of what potentially exists on the other side of that. So those were two of the main reasons we brought her back into the fold.
Let’s assume Eleven is still alive, because that’s more in the spirit of “Stranger Things.” Can she ever reveal herself again to her friends and family?
Ross Duffer: If she were alive, the way I would see it is no. Any contact would risk bringing her back out in the open and starting the cycle again. So, in the story that Mike’s telling, I don’t think he sees a version where they reconnect.
This is a fandom that I’ve realized over the past month or two does not love ambiguity. How do you feel about the fans who are upset there isn’t more clarity about Eleven?
Matt Duffer: Are a lot of people upset about that? I really don’t know!
I mean, after Volume 2, people didn’t understand that Jonathan and Nancy broke up. I was like, what are you watching?
Matt Duffer: This is obviously intended to be ambiguous, right? With Eleven. At the end of the day, it’s being told from the point of view of Mike and his friends. And they don’t know, and the audience can’t know. If you knew that she was out there and you knew she existed, then she’s very much at risk. So we thought there was something really cool about not knowing for sure, and having our characters choose to believe. We just thought that was more powerful than providing a definitive answer, one way or the other. And I like that the audiences are in Mike, Max, Lucas and Dustin’s shoes, in the sense that they get to choose or not choose. I mean, I’m definitely seeing the majority choosing to believe and side with the kids.
Courtesy of Netflix
I side with the kids. Can you talk about the final battle between the Mind Flayer, Vecna and our heroes, and how you specifically wanted to stage that?
Ross Duffer: We were originally going to go to New Mexico to shoot it, and logistically, that became impossible as we moved into the finale. We shot it in some, like, decrepit quarry in Atlanta. But obviously, WETA visual effects, some of the best in the world, did an incredible job.
Mainly, what we needed was a huge battlefield for this monster. I don’t think we fully realized quite how large it was until once we built the interior sets. And we were like, “Well, if that’s the size of its interior, how big is its exterior?”
Matt Duffer: We were thinking about D&D, and I was playing Baldur’s Gate 3 at the time, and we felt it was very important that the only way for them to defeat it was for the entire party to work together. Everyone had fully realized — either through self-acceptance or they’ve resolved all their various issues — moving into that final battle, they’re absolutely primed. They’re the ultimate team, and it’s the party working all together to defeat this thing. And they each have their own individual skills, right? And that’s where I go back to Dungeons & Dragons, and something like Baldur’s Gate. Because that’s how you take down these monsters that seem otherwise unstoppable. Lots of video game references were applied to that final battle.
Eleven obviously is the nuclear option, but Will really helps when she’s on her back foot. When did you figure out that part of it?
Matt Duffer: Well, we knew that Will was obviously going to play a major role in it, and it just came down to, who did we want to deliver the final blow? Was it going to be Will, or was it going to be Eleven? Then we tried to work on a way where it was actually both of them. Eleven throws him into the spike, but Will is the one who allows her to do that. He just breaks him down, rips off his left arm, allowing Eleven that final opportunity. Will was always going to be a key part in defeating Vecna. Without Will, it wouldn’t have happened.
And Joyce beheads Vecna. How did you arrive at that moment?
Ross Duffer: In the writers’ room, I remember we went through, “Who gets to do the final blow?” It works with all of them in a way. So, we just cycled through, what if Steve does it? What if Dustin does it? And then finally, when we landed on, what if Joyce does it? It felt right for a lot of reasons. She is sort of the mother of this group, the protector. And also, we never got to see her hit anything with that ax, so that felt like such a satisfying way to deliver the final blow to Vecna.
But it was in editorial really, where, as we were working on it, that we had the initial flashbacks to her remembering back to Bob, and building up that anger. It felt right that it’s just not just a “fuck yeah” moment. It was also, in a way, a cathartic moment for our characters, who are purging all this trauma that’s been caused here. It’s not just a stand-up and cheer moment. It’s remembering that this evil has caused them so much pain.
Matt Duffer: I remember working with our editor and our composer and just talking to them and going, “Let’s make this the most emotional decapitation in history.” That was the goal.
Courtesy of Netflix
She’s, of course, decapitating the kid whom she cast in “Oklahoma.”
Matt Duffer: Yeah, I guess so!
Was there ever a scene in the 18 months after Season 4 when Hopper and Joyce realized that Henry Creel, aka Vecna, was the kid they went to high school with?
Ross Duffer: Yeah, I’m sure there was. We had a walk a fine line with the play — we don’t want to frustrate, because so much of our audience is unable to see it. To have them start talking about it would have been confusing in the context of someone who hasn’t seen the play. But I’m sure they did have that conversation.
Matt Duffer: We really needed the final season to be exactly as it would have been without the play. The play is Henry’s backstory after he’s infected by the Mind Flayer. But this is how the season was going to play out regardless.
The Mind Flayer is the real evil, which we asked about in our Volume 1 postmortem. But if you had to define what that rock in the briefcase is, how would you describe it?
Matt Duffer: Hmm. How would we describe it?
What is it?!
Matt Duffer: I’m gonna be sketchy here, Kate, because I will say that is — can I say this, Ross? Because it’s just hard to not say it.
Courtesy of Netflix
Spinoffy?!
Matt Duffer: Spinoffy, yeah. You pinned us down. So annoying. I do want to explain, just because people’s expectations go in certain directions: The spinoff is going to delve into that and explain that, and you’re going to understand it. But it’s a completely different mythology. So it’s not a deep exploration of the Mind Flayer or anything like that. It’s very fresh and very new, but yes, it will answer some of the loose threads that are remaining.
Where are you with the spinoff?
Ross Duffer: We’re going to start working on it again on Monday. We’ve been working on it on and off. We’ll take a few days off.
On Monday?!
Matt Duffer: You don’t understand. My favorite part of the show is working on it. It’s not releasing it — that’s just stressful, no matter how it goes when you release it. It’s maybe my least favorite part of the process. I like the creative part. I like making it. So, we’re actually really excited, and it’s very exciting to work with a clean slate: completely new characters, new town, new world, new mythology.
And no common characters?
Matt Duffer: Right. Exactly. No common characters.
I wanted to ask you about the review bombing of “The Bridge,” which appears to be a coordinated attack by people who didn’t like Will’s coming out scene. It’s now the lowest rated episode in the series. Can you talk about why it was important to you all along to have Will’s queerness associated with his powers?
Ross Duffer: The coming out scene is something we’ve been building to for nine years now. It was a really important scene for us, and a really important scene for Noah — not just from a thematic point of view, but also a narrative point of view. This show has always been about our characters overcoming evil, and in order to overcome this evil, Vecna, in so many ways, represents all the dark thoughts and the evil of society. And for our characters to overcome that, it really becomes about embracing themselves, and then also embracing one another and coming together.
Matt Duffer: Right. It was the final step in Will’s journey. And Will is, in so many ways, the key to defeating Vecna. Volume 1 is really about self-acceptance, right? I mean, that’s sort of step one. And then step two is Will is talking to Robin — it’s something that he wants to do. He’s trying to figure out how to come out, and he knows that he needs to do that, and that that’s the final step for him. And he finds the courage to be able to do it. And it’s really the ultimate fuck you to Vecna. That was the intention.
Courtesy of Netflix
And were you prepared for a homophobic campaign like that?
Matt Duffer: No. I mean, no is the honest truth. Because it is, as Ross said, something we’ve been building for a really long time. I always say, Ross and I are many things, but subtle is not one of those things!
Ross Duffer: We’re proud of the episode, and we’re proud of the scene, and proud of Noah, who gave a really brave, very vulnerable performance.
Matt Duffer: I think that’s where Ross and I were most sensitive, was Noah — because of how close to home this hit for him. And our goal was to make sure that he was comfortable and happy with the scene. And when he was, we felt good about it. I’ve been texting with him a lot, but texting with him specifically after that scene and after that episode aired. And he’s in a really good place. He’s very proud of the scene, and we’re proud of the scene.
He should be, and so should you. I have another question along these lines. There’s a QAnon-ish conspiracy theory going around that Volume 2 was — and I’m doing air quotes, in case you’re not actually looking at me — “tampered with.” That there were scenes that were cut, including El and Mike going into Camazotz to rescue Will, and a Mike and Will one-on-one scene. Have you seen this Google Doc?
Matt Duffer: Someone sent it to us, yeah. Obviously, that’s not a real thing.
Have you seen the Change.org petition with 370,000+ signatures to release the footage?
Ross Duffer: I have not seen that! I don’t think there’s a single cut scene in the entire season.
Matt Duffer: The show has just grown so massive. Online, there’s just so much misinformation. Just tons of it. We would be here for hours trying to bat down the stuff that was not true. But at the end of the day, hopefully the work speaks for itself, and it is the show that Ross and I wanted to make. Netflix was, and has always been, incredible. I mean, there’s no interference or direction at all from them on us. They really trust us, and that’s been true from Season 1 on. It’s never changed, even though the show and the size of the audience have grown.
We do need to wrap, I know, but I saw you guys were at the Americana last night. Did you actually sit and watch it? And how was it?
Ross Duffer: It was awesome. We never get that experience. I mean, the premieres are one thing, but that’s generally friends and crew. So, to sit there with just true fans — they’re all decked out in merch, and to hear them in real-time responding, whether it’s applauding or laughing or crying. It was an incredible experience. It was really special.
This interview has been edited and condensed.
• Variety‘s series finale recap
• The Duffer Brothers Break Down All the Volume 2 Spoilers
• The Duffer Brothers Break Down All the Volume 1 Spoilers
• Our 13 Burning Questions Ahead of the Series Finale
• Noah Schnapp on That Scene in Volume 2
• Noah Schnapp on Turning Into the (SPOILER) in Volume 1
• Why Will’s Coming Out Is Seismic
• Director Shawn Levy on Will’s Huge Breakthrough
• Sadie Sink on Max’s Key Role in Volume 1
• Nell Fisher on Playing Holly Wheeler in Season 5
• The Cast of ‘Stranger Things’ on the Show’s Final Days
• Variety’s “Stranger Things” Oct. 15 Cover Story About the Duffers
• Cara Buono on Karen’s Kick-Ass Hero Moment (At Last)
• The Duffer Brothers on the ‘Stranger Things’ Spinoff
Courtesy of Netflix
