Bravo Boss Frances Berwick on BravoCon’s Profits, RHOSLC, Karen Huger

“It was a statement,” Berwick says of Roberts’ decision to keep Bravo in-house, “about how valuable Bravo is to the overall ecosystem, and also how successful it has been on Peacock.” Bravo shows stream on Peacock the day after they premiere on the network, and it’s a mutually beneficial relationship — and a powerful symbiosis. As Peacock’s culturally dominant “Love Island” was streaming nightly last summer (drawing 18.4 billion minutes for Season 7, according to Peacock data), its extraordinarily young audience (50% of its viewers are under 30) also began watching Bravo series “The Valley” and “Next Gen NYC.”

Berwick has been out and about all weekend, both an approachable presence in the press room and watching as many panels as she can. She’s also tried to meet most, if not all, of the 160-plus reality stars who trekked to Las Vegas to be here. “It’s probably an exhausting weekend,” Berwick says. “But I think it really is quite rewarding.” And, she adds, “they also like interacting with each other — there is a shared experience.”

BravoCon is “enormously expensive to put on,” Berwick says. But with corporate sponsorships bringing in the lion’s share of the revenue and the ticket fees contributing — without add-ons for the nighttime events, a three-day general admission pass cost $672.61 without tax, and a three-day VIP pass cost $1,463.52 without tax — it is a profitable enterprise. It’s also a marketing extravaganza, with an accompanying explosion of press around the shows and their stars, especially with the “Real Housewives” franchise celebrating its 20th anniversary next year. But as she surveys the increasingly bleak media landscape, Berwick sees an even more important benefit from the gathering: It allows her to gain insights from the fans. “We want Bravo to live on into the future, in a sea of dying television brands,” she says. “This should run and run, and really be successful.”

BravoCon aspires to be what Bravo shows so often embody — “escapism, the passion, the loyalty, the community,” Berwick adds. “It’s just really fun.”

Speaking in her calming British accent, Berwick discussed all things Bravo with Variety, including how the network plans to celebrate “Real Housewives” turning 20, why she thinks “The Real Housewives of Salt Lake City” is firing on all cylinders, which former Bravo stars might be welcomed back to the network — and who probably won’t be.  

Do you even look at linear ratings anymore?

We tend to look much more at our total audience delivery, which requires a lot more patience. I’m not going to lie to you, I still look at the live-same linear numbers, and that probably won’t change for a while. And those are still meaningful numbers in terms of overall reach. But increasingly, you have to get very comfortable with waiting seven days so we actually start getting a full picture. And then the longer tail, especially on Bravo shows, is really sizeable.

The number of subscribers for Peacock has been stuck this year at 41 million. How much is unscripted part of Peacock’s growth potential?

We’re thinking about growth in two ways. One is, obviously, new subscribers. The other one, which is as important, is engagement. And Bravo viewers, they are the most loyal, both in terms of their consumption on linear and as the most loyal viewers on Peacock. So they have great lifetime value. They watch lots of Bravo shows, and they watch lots of other content too. So they are some of the most valuable subscribers that we have for Peacock.

Is it safe to say that you’ve concluded that docusoaps aren’t what Peacock originals should be? Like, “McBee Dynasty” migrated to Bravo, and the new “Ultimate Girls Trip” is going to be on Bravo. Is Peacock for competition shows?

Not entirely. We’ve actually had a lot of success with specific types of follow docs on Peacock. “Nelly & Ashanti,” which we launched this summer, did incredibly well. We just launched “Tiffany Haddish Goes Off.”

Bravo IP, though, should start on Bravo — there’s no reason for it not to. And so when we just announced our celebration for the 20 years of “Real Housewives,” with “Real Housewives: The Ultimate Road Trip,” we’ll start it on Bravo.

Do you want to throw some “Love Island” stats at me that will shock me? Someone told me an astounding number of the viewership watches it on their phones — as an old person, I was like, what?

Around 30% for the consumption of ‘Love Island’ was on mobile — phones, tablets, whatever. So that’s already a very high statistic. The other great stat is 50% of the audience for “Love Island” was 30 or under. I’m actually more surprised that 50% of the audience for” “Love Island” is over 30. Which I think speaks to that it’s a huge show that sucks people in, and it’s great storytelling, and you get fully engaged, and it becomes this destination. There’s something for everyone. It’s broader than you think the appeal would be.

And why do you think that “Love Island USA” exploded two summers ago? What are the lessons you take from that?

I mean, the franchise is huge globally. CBS took a shot on it, but they’re not the right audience for it. So it needed to come to streaming with a much younger and broader audience. But also we really lent into figuring out great casting. It’s not easy. The first season of “Love Island” on Peacock, we were still very much in COVID. It’s hard to cast these shows when you’re doing it remotely. I think the casting was great for Seasons 6 and 7.

Adding Ariana Madix to the mix — she’s so empathetic and relatable, and already known, and obviously had a following from the Bravo viewership — who then followed her into that, then got sucked in. And then I think that we’ve done a really good job in terms of getting the social word out.

What are the biggest challenges in the year 2025 to create new hits?

I think it’s getting the word out. You can create really great content, but then connecting it to the audience and getting that awareness is absolutely critical. And you have to pull every single lever across multiple marketing tactics — communications, press, everything. That is one of the secrets of Bravo. There’s a lot of social support, and the fans evangelizing for you. That really is incredibly potent.

With something like “McBee Dynasty,” which seems like it was like a word-of-mouth hit — that’s so not a Bravo show? But it worked.

For years, we were very singularly focused on particular type of show and a particular type of cast. And what we’ve actually learned is our audience has very broad tastes, and we were not really serving a piece of the audience. We did the first season of “McBee” for Peacock. But what we actually saw was the key ingredients of Bravo shows were all there — the immersive, addictive storytelling. We lent more in Season 2 into the female characters, who are great, as well as our three male leads. And it has resonated, but it’s also brought in a broader audience.

Historically, we’ve lent into stories that were more aspirational. But there’s lots of different levels of aspiration, and as long as there’s a relatability and there’s drama and humor and all the ingredients of a Bravo show, then it will work. We’re very happy to have them here — yes, they stand out because they’re wearing cowboy hats. But they actually feel like they fit.

Hulu is really getting into the reality game. How much do you see them as a competitor?

Well, I think there’s obviously room for lots of different types of programming. I think that we have honed what we do, and we’ll keep honing it and broadening it. There’s place for everyone. But I’m very happy with where we are, and how we’re building our audience.  

I don’t see Hulu doing an event like this, and of this scale where you’ve got 30,000 people across three days, and there’s this intense passion and knowledge. Obviously, I feel like I know the ins and outs, and sometimes I’m blown away by how much people know — the historic knowledge, and the fact that they’ve lived with these people and these brands, and they really consider them friends. There’s certainly no other unscripted brand that is in that category.

I don’t think it affected decision-making, honestly. We’ve kept on doing what we do. And as I’ve said before, I think there were certain things that we were changing anyway, about our production protocols, and we’ve continued to do that. We want to make sure that our sets are absolutely in line with our values, and so we’ve continued to press ahead with that. But we were doing that anyway. There’s not been any sort of sea change as a result.

But are there any good things that came out of the concerns that were raised?

There were things that we were doing anyway. We want to make sure that we have our cast and our production crews’ well-being top of mind. We’re very focused on things like alcohol consumption. And that goes for all of our productions. There’s a reason there’s a two-drink maximum on shows like “Love Island.” I would not attribute that to any outside force. That came from within our organization. And that’s about evolving generally.

The legacy thing, it did come together — we did the “Ultimate Girls Trip,” which was always meant to be a single season.

We’re very thoughtful about our casting generally, including when we add new people into the mix. They need to be organically connected. We’re trying to represent new stories and different life stages and different things that people are going through, and bring in the right mix of people who get along and who are very vulnerable and who will be authentic. And not be self-conscious on camera or have an agenda, or be doing it overtly to build a business, or for clout. So there are lots of different factors, and I think we were pretty thoughtful about how we approached “Atlanta” too.

I wanted to ask about gradations of criminal behavior, as well as what is forgivable and what isn’t. We saw Karen Huger be get a standing ovation the other night, and she’s sitting down with Andy in the “Real Housewives of Potomac” finale after being released from prison for her fourth DUI. What makes something forgivable within the Bravo universe?

It’s a variety of things, and it’s also about the level of accountability, the level of change that that person is going to make. The audience is with Karen, because they’re rooting for her, because they think and believe that this will profoundly change her. I took the standing ovation as a sign of support for somebody who’s now taken accountability. That’s borne out by what she says to Andy. And then I think that there are things that are less forgivable. 

Will Karen be on Season 11 of “The Real Housewives of Potomac?” 

I couldn’t tell you, because we haven’t picked that one up. 

When it’s picked up, I’ll ask. Jen Shah — is that one that’s less forgivable?

For me personally, yeah. But you know, again, I have no idea on the level of accountability. But yes.

This isn’t criminal, of course, but is there a road back to “Atlanta” for Kenya Moore after what she did in Season 16?

I would say so, but I don’t know. Yeah, I would not rule it out.

How about Nene Leakes? Is there ever a way back for Nene between Bravo and Andy Cohen?

We’ve had Nene on red carpet shows for E! — we have worked with Nene since then.

Could she ever be on a show again, do you think? 

Yes, she can be on a show again. 

Here at BravoCon, there are people like Teresa Giudice and Countess Luann who are in the Bravo firmament, even when they’re not on shows. Is there an extended Bravo Universe?

I see it as a bit of a family, and we’re not closing the door on anyone. We want to maintain that relationship, and we feel that they’re firmly within the Bravo family, and we’ll look for opportunities where they can come back.

This is 20th anniversary of “The Real Housewives.” Andy announced the “Road Trip” series, Vicki Gunvalson’s coming back for Season 20. What other kinds of celebrations can viewers expect next year?

Yes, who would have thought? Doing the “Road Trip,” that’s a big celebration, but we will definitely be marking it. Let’s just say the audience will be very aware that it is the 20th anniversary of “Real Housewives,” with many celebrations around that. I’m excited that in our 20th year of “Real Housewives,” we’re introducing a brand new cast with “Rhode Island,” so that will feed into it.

There’s no entertainment company that inspires the kind of love for the brand that Bravo does. People are very attached to the Disney brand, but it’s different.

“Joy” is bit overused this weekend, but I think it makes people happy, and it brings people together. It used to be the secret, shared guilty pleasure — and now I think that people are very overt about it: Why would you feel guilty about it? When you look around these halls, there are all these people who are making new friends based on this shared passion. 

And we listen to them, I will say. At the end of each season, we do pretty deep consumer insights, and we ask for a lot of feedback on what they thought worked, didn’t work. Sometimes we can control those things. Sometimes we can’t because it’s real people.

I’m sure this is extremely expensive to stage, BravoCon. Is it profitable?

It is a business revenue driver, but it is enormously expensive to put on. So yes, there is some profit, but I would say the bigger piece of this equation is building a fan base and building engagement. And how we make this brand. We want Bravo to live on into the future, in a sea of dying television brands. This should run and run, and really be successful.

And so it’s about engaging our audience and connecting with them, and then also getting enough insights to help us figure out, what does that look like in five years’ time? 

Are there appearance fees for talent to appear at BravoCon?

Yes.

Is it based on seniority, the way salaries are?

No.

Is it flat?

It’s more or less flat, but based on how much we’re expecting them to do. But it’s pretty flat. Nobody’s getting rich on their BravoCon appearance fees. We want to make sure that it’s a good experience for the talent, too. And I think every everyone I’ve spoken to — which is maybe almost all of them that I managed to get to — they all really appreciate it. I’m not going to sugarcoat it, it’s probably an exhausting weekend, because they’re taking a lot of photos, they’re interacting with a lot of people, and they’re doing lots of panels and things. But I think it really is quite rewarding.

It’s Sunday, and they’re all still in that press room on that carpet.

They also like interacting with each other. There is a shared experience. It’s clearly a weird experience to be on a reality show, and it’s not for everyone, and so they do have that common experience of understanding that. I think it’s also quite helpful for some of the more rookie ones to hear some of that experience from some of the ones who’ve been around.

You mentioned dying cable channels. What advice would you give any cable executive in a linear cable environment these days?

You have to keep investing in original content. And even if you accept that not all the monetization is going to come from the linear exposure, there’s going to be a streaming life. You have to keep investing — if not, ultimately, you’re not going to end up with anything.

This interview has been edited and condensed. This story first appeared in the Nov. 19 print edition of Variety.