There were two unusual things about this weekend’s musical performance on “Saturday Night Live.” Actual rock and roll was played. What’s more unusual is that Thomas Jefferson is quoted prominently and at length where the guitar solo would otherwise disappear.
While Brandi Carlile performed a hard rock, U2-style rendition of “Church & State,” Carlile recited the title theme during the chorus. Viewers may have heard this phrase familiar but found it difficult to accurately describe it. Is it from the constitution?
It’s not perfect, but it’s close. The words Carlisle chose to share with “SNL” viewers are essentially constitutional quotes, from Thomas Jefferson’s famous 1802 letter to the Danbury Baptists. Carlyle’s words, calmly reviewing his new album, came across as a howl on SNL, with Jefferson writing:
“I reflect with sovereign respect on the act of the entire American people in declaring that the Legislature shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, or thereby erecting a wall of separation between church and state.”
Carlyle rarely speaks openly about partisan politics, but it’s clear where she stands on a song that gives off the impression of being a hot-button protest song simply because it quotes Thomas Jefferson. Add to that Carlyle’s own lyrics — “While the empire was in decline…” and “I saw the ivory tower before the revolution began” — and it’s clear that “Church & State” isn’t exactly intended as an 1802 period drama.
In a recent conversation with Variety about his new album, Return to Myself, Carlyle talked about writing Church & State with co-producer Andrew Watt and band members Phil and Tim Hanselot as a protest song, or at least a reflective anthem, about what’s going on in America on election night in 2024.
And yes, she was quick to acknowledge the influence of U2, which “SNL” viewers quickly noticed.
“November 5th, we were in the studio as a band, and it wasn’t an introspective night. It was a night where I couldn’t put my phone down because I was watching myself awaken to an awareness of the country I live in. And I was listening to ‘Bullet the Blue Sky,’ and I was leaning into my childhood and just gathering anger. And we made a fiery, searing song that night. ” she says. “Instead of a guitar solo,” he included a conversation about the First Amendment in the recording.
Carlyle explained, “When I was putting together the lyrics for that song, I couldn’t help but think about the wisdom of Thomas Jefferson’s address to the Danbury Baptists. There’s so much wisdom in the Constitution, and there’s wisdom in the constitutional notes, or footnotes, that he said to the Baptists. was intended to reassure Baptists that they were allowed to freely practice their faith, spirituality, and religion, however they referred to it.”But we also make the very important distinction that we cannot control people with very opaque interpretations of the Bible, especially as it pertains to the Christian religion. Because it allows the law to be what it is supposed to be: safe for all people. It turns out to be an essential, animating part of the text. ”
Carlyle, who identifies himself as a believer in his best-selling memoir, says of this text and the song, “In my faith, Jesus was clear that he would not govern people based on their interpretation of religion. Even Jesus said, ‘Give to Caesar what is Caesar’s.'” So even if I agree with that religion, I cannot support rules or laws that I know are secretly based on an interpretation of a religion that I cannot support. ”
Regarding the song’s notable U2 influence, Carlyle said it dates back to his youth. “One of my top five favorite albums growing up was “The Joshua Tree.” When I was 15, I entered a contest as Bono and won with “Running to Stand Still.” I ended up falling to my knees, wearing sunglasses and shit. I already had a lesbian haircut like his, so it wasn’t too much of a stretch. ”
The musical seeds for this song had been planted a while ago, but she brought them home with the Watt and Hanselot twins on election night. “I got the song from Tim a few years ago. This beautiful concept and the riff and the drop D and all the cognitive dissonance that’s in this song were solid in that song. And I said, whatever it is, that’s the direction we could go in musically. And I just put it in the back of my head and forgot about it until November 5th.” It was vague at first until co-producer and co-writer Watt became more involved. When her band jams, “sometimes it can be a bit of a sonic tornado, but Andrew has this idea about this independent guitar line, this independent bass line, and I think that’s where I hit the U2 button,” with parts that are reminiscent of Peak’s Adam Clayton and Edge. And we must not forget the words of Peak’s Larry Mullen Jr. “Matt Chamberlain was just enduring that crazy drum riff. That was a cardio workout.”
Musical guest Brandi Carlile performs “Church & State” on November 1, 2025
Will Heath/NBC via Getty Images
If you’re confused about where this song recitation came from, you’re not alone.
“I love Andrew Watt so much. Every time we talk on the phone, he says, ‘I love ‘Church and State’ — I love when you’re reading the Declaration of Independence.’ … I love Andrew Watt. It didn’t matter where he thought it came from. He agreed with it and believed in it and was really excited about it. And he was in the exact same place as us.”
“Church and State” is rooted in anger, but offers a hopeful denouement. In an album imbued with an awareness of mortality, Carlyle sees failures in leadership and sees them as positive, declaring: If possible. ”
Carlyle’s second “SNL” performance was “Human,” a gentle song from his new album that also relates to the 2024 election and was written the night before the results, making a roundabout reference to the mood many felt at the time.
Carlyle’s appearance on the show hosted by Miles Teller was the second time in 2025 that she appeared as a musical guest. Earlier that year, she sang with Elton John to promote his double album Who Believes in Angels?
